Following the news that police in England and Wales are going to be encouraged to disclose the ethnicity and race of suspects moving forward, a debate on Wednesday’s GMB got rather heated.
The decision comes following calls from the public for increased transparency from law enforcement amid heightening tensions in communities up and down the country.
There was also a summer of riots last year following the Southport murders. Many have claimed that misinformation and a lack of communication regarding the identity of Axel Rudakubana contributed to the violence.
Discussing the implications of the new police guidance, Richard Madeley’s co-host Kate Garraway kicked things off as she described the move as addressing a “tension and dilemma” for the government.
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She cited the case of the car ramming into crowds at Liverpool’s title parade earlier this year and the fact that the driver was revealed to be white. “It did dissolve things,” Garraway claimed.
“If they had (released the race of the Southport suspect), it may have filled the vacuum of people saying it was an asylum seeker and things like that,” she added.
Guest panellist Ava Evans said it was “nonsensical” and blamed the Southport riots on misinformation online. She claimed it would’ve made no difference on the riots to reveal Rudakubana’s race or citizen status, as he was still a person of colour.
Arguing her point, Andrew Pierce said the public “has a right to know and the more transparency the better”. “I completely agree,” Madeley said.
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ITV GMB: Richard Madeley & Kate Garraway hosted the debate
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Madeley argued: “You have to trust the public. You have to treat the British public as adults, and that means giving them all relevant information.
“Basic journalism, good, honest, straightforward reporting, means that you give as much detail of the suspect as you possibly can, and withholding information has the opposite effect.”
Garraway turned to newsreader Marverine Cole for her input. Cole admitted she had concerns about the age of social media as she shared her thoughts on the guidance.
“I think it’s helpful in this climate that we’re in now, but I think there is a much wider issue that we’re not tackling which is that it feeds into a narrative that a non-white person is a problem, is a potentially violent criminal, is somebody to perpetrate a harsher crime than a white person,” Cole said.
ITV GMB: Richard Madeley argued Marverine’s point
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“There is this narrative and rhetoric across much of the media that reinforces that which then feeds across social media, which then has the potential to feed these things.
“Unless as a society, as a country, that rhetoric is addressed at the highest level, whether it’s government or institutions, to say we are not this country, we are a people, a nation, who have readily accepted people from different backgrounds.
“But there is a narrative now that says people of non-white backgrounds are troublemakers, whether they are asylum seekers or not. That never was around-“
Madeley decided to cut in to offer an opposing view: “No, but the more you withhold that information-“
ITV GMB: Marverine Cole clashed with Madeley
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“Yes, I understand that-” Cole continued, prompting her and Madeley to speak over one another. “Hold on,” Madeley attempted to interject.
An undeterred Cole went on: “There are two different things! We need to address who we are as a society-“
Madeley soldiered on with his point, however. “With race, when it leaks out, it has much more impact because it is a rarity.
“If you lift the lid on this and are open every single time someone is accused or arrested or charged, you’re open about who they are or where they’re from, you reduce the impact of when it leaks out inaccurately.”
ITV GMB: Marverine Cole and Richard Madeley spoke over each other throughout
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Cole responded: “I appreciate that, but it goes hand in hand with a rhetoric that is across the country now, which is, ‘It’s got to be an asylum seeker who’s done this hideous thing!’ And if it’s a white person, ‘Oh, it’s okay.’
“There is this rhetoric and you cannot deny that that is what is across media and social media today, and it never was, so there needs to be-“
Madeley interrupted: “I get what you’re saying, but if it were a white person accused of a hideous crime, people shrug and say that’s alright, I think that’s nonsense.”
Evans cut in to use Liverpool as an example to back Cole’s point and argue Madeley’s. Cole added: “Can anyone on this desk deny that there is, every time you open a paper or social media, there is some judgment, a harsher judgment, and we see this played out.
ITV GMB: Ava Evans also chipped in
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“I feel so strongly about that because that’s what underlies this.”
Cole went on to reveal that she is “occasionally followed” by security staff in stores in London and Birmingham due to the rhetoric she sees in the media.
Evans and Pierce rounded off the debate as they clashed once more before things ended amicably among the panel.
However, the same couldn’t be said for viewers at home who flocked to social media to hit out at the tense nature of the debate, with many unimpressed with Madeley’s conduct, in particular.
ITV GMB fans had strong reactions to the debate
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“This is deeply disturbing to watch a black woman who is articulating a lived experience being talked over by her @ITV colleague who is dismissing her concerns,” one X user complained. “I am also surprised that Kate is just sitting there in silence. This is what black people have to face in Britain today.”
A second added: “Richard Madeley is appalling, speaking over her like that. He has an awful manner that comes across as I’m the white man here, and I will speak. Listen to me!”
Meanwhile, a third weighed in: “The most uncomfortable part of this was Richard Madeley rudely and arrogantly speaking over Marverine, completely unchallenged by the other, white presenter and panel guests as if this was totally acceptable @GMB.”
“Bravo Marverine Cole putting Richard Madeley back in his bloody box. What an ignorant buffoon he is. #GMB,” a fourth commented while a fifth similarly hit out: “#gmb wish Madeley would stop talking over Marverine, so bl**dy rude!”
However, others sided with Madeley, suggesting the claims made by the likes of Evans and Cole weren’t reflective of today.
“The only such ‘narrative’ is the one she’s trying to invent,” one X user argued, before a second fumed: “Rewriting history again? The Liverpool attack wasn’t ‘buried’ it was splashed all over every front page and news channel.” (sic)